From:          Todd Taliaferro todd8080g@hotmail.com
To:              Black Echo
Subject:     Your Idiocy
Date:          February 17, 2003

Dear wannabe racer boy with the scary-sounding web name,

You are right about one thing, you'll never own a Harley. Not because you don't want to (it doesn't take a shrink to see you're obsessed with them), it's because you'll never be able to afford one. Too bad, so sad. No, teenyboppers like you are destined to own strictly the cheapest imported plastic crap. Let's see, your Ninja lasted a whole 3 years? What a joke! Harleys last a lifetime. I personally know of Harleys that have been ridden continuously for at least twice as long as you've been alive. All one has to do is look around to see that there are no 20, 30, 40, or 50 year old Jap bikes around. Why? Because they're disposable junk, that's why.
The difference between a Harley and rice is just like the difference between a Zippo lighter and a Bic. One's solid metal and designed to last a lifetime while the other's just brightly colored plastic that gets t! ossed whe n it's used up (which do esn't take long). Check the motorcycle junkyards across the nation. They're piled high with the carcasses of junked Jap crap, yet you won't find one single Harley in any of them anywhere.

Now you want to talk about power? My personal Harley will do an honest 130 mph. I know because I've been there. That's a 680 pound bike going that fast, not a 350 pound plastic toy. I doubt you've ever seen that kind of speed in your short little life.
It's easy to blather on about a subject with which you have no experience, as you do on your Teenage Ninja Turtle site, or whatever it's called, but until you've actually ridden a real Harley you can only speak from a speculative point of view. But since you'll never gather enough money to buy a Harley at your regular job giving BJs to oriental businessmen, it's all academic anyway. No, you just keep sending what little you earn to Japan and keep telling everyone what being a real American is all about.
Like I said, too bad, so sad.! It's jus t as well, though. You a ren't Harley material anyway. Pretend riders like you belong behind the safety of a keyboard because if you uttered your childlike gibberish to a real biker in the real world, all gibberish would cease instantly. Take that to the bank, rice bowl.

-Todd8080

PS ~ I see you're a big Terminator fan and have devoted a large portion of your site to it. Guess what brand Arnold rides?

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To which I replied

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Dear oozing foreskin wart,

“You are right about one thing, you'll never own a Harley. Not because you don't want to (it doesn't take a shrink to see you're obsessed with them), it's because you'll never be able to afford one. Too bad, so sad.”

Read the FAQ, junior simp. You missed the rather in-depth discussion as to if I can own a Harley or not and just why exactly I do not own a Harley Davidson. I can tell you right now that my reason for not owning a Harley doesn’t revolve around not having enough money or not having enough penis size. I’m well off in both departments, thank you very much and your mother is welcome to come over and see for herself anytime she wants.

I also won’t take the time and space to reiterate that argument here, it’s been debated too many times. I also want to thank you profusely for choosing to use the way over-used “jealousy” line of reasoning to present your patently inept argument. You double-wide scoggins really do have only two or three major comebacks in defense of your motorcycles and your poser lifestyle, don’t you? If someone doesn’t like Harley Davidson, they’re either jealous, or they have a small dick or they can’t afford one of your obviously superior all American made motorcycles or they aren’t ‘real’ men.

I love it.

I hear one or the other, sometimes combinations of the four, about a hundred times a week from dainty, twinkle toed fuckpixies such as yourself. Why don’t you people try something new in the way of rationalizing your tired old arguments, you know, be original? Why don’t any of you, for once, try to use up a few of the brain cells that God had the grace to give you?

Oh, that’s right!

Since you ride a Harley, that’s a clear indication that you are neither an original human being nor are you inherently a very deep thinker. Therefore, I shouldn’t expect anything wholly original or incredibly deep in response from Luddites such as you.

When someone throws out logical, well thought out arguments, you Harley owners can’t respond with anything better than ‘you’re jealous’ or ‘I bet you have a small dick’ or ‘you can’t afford a Harley’ and ‘only REAL men ride Harleys’. Maybe one day I’ll encounter a smart Harley owner (an oxymoron if ever there was to be one) who has something better to say, but you, Toddler, most definitely are not that example of the breed. Too bad, so sad, as you are fond of saying.

“No, teenyboppers like you are destined to own strictly the cheapest imported plastic crap. Let's see, your Ninja lasted a whole 3 years? What a joke! Harleys last a lifetime.”

I left my teenybopper years decades ago, Toddler, but it’s rather evident from your writing style that you may yourself be nothing more than a teenybopper wannabe. Perhaps by this time in your life, you have realized that puberty is something you can’t take a correspondence course to pass and you will eventually find in the next few years that your tiny little balls actually will drop and your voice will get a lot deeper. When that happens, your mommy may just let your daddy take the training wheels off of your bike.

For your information, my Ninja lasted until it (and I) struck a full grown deer at 70mph, an exercise in physics if ever there was one. My bike didn’t fall apart, it didn’t break in half at a weld point on my way to Sturgis, and it never had any class action law suit brought against it because it was a dangerous piece of junk to ride. Before that, I had no problems at all with the motorcycle. I walked away from that impact with some road rash, a dead deer (it was dogmeat on the inside, being hit at 70mph by a 400 pound pile driver does that to you). Two days before that, a full sized Harley, ridden by a man with 30 years of Harley riding experience, struck a full grown deer at 45mph (or 30mph less than my velocity). Both of our bikes were destroyed in the impact. He is a quadriplegic now, paralyzed from the neck down because he chose to ride a big, heavy, slow, excuse for a motorcycle that couldn’t get out of the way fast enough to save him instead of something light and nimble like what I rode. I’m still riding, he’s got a full time nurse to feed him three times a day and wipe his ass when he shits himself. I’ll take import plastic over domestic junk all day long, thank you so very much. Import is a hell of a lot safer. And my bike didn’t quit on me, it was destroyed.

Big difference there, ass twinkie.

“I personally know of Harleys that have been ridden continuously for at least twice as long as you've been alive.”

Wow! You mean there are actually 66 year old Harleys out there still being ridden other than in Shriner’s Parades or Civil War reenactments? Oh, that’s right, anyone can ride a 66 year old Harley. If you go buy one brand new off the show room floor, you can have 66 year old technology today and you get to pay 21st century prices for 19th century technology! What an incredible bargain! What Harley sells today is identical to what it sold ten years ago, and that was identical to what they sold ten years before that, and ten years before that, so when you say that there are Harleys out there being ridden that are ancient, my thought is, what model of Harley isn’t considered ancient even when its brand new off the showroom floor? If technology had a version of inbreeding, Harley Davidson would be the pioneer in that area, hands down.

Look at what Harley does with their models and how they create a new bike. They take the frame from one model, the wheels from another, the tank from another, put some paint on it, stick one of two or three different engines in it, throw in a belt and a clunkety old tranny, randomly choose four letters from the alphabet, and voila! You have a ‘new’ model. Either its inbreeding or cannibalism, I haven’t quite made up my mind yet, but it’s most definitely not technological evolution. The way Harley puts their models together reminds me of that Johnny Cash song “One piece at a time.”

“All one has to do is look around to see that there are no 20, 30, 40, or 50 year old Jap bikes around. Why? Because they're disposable junk, that's why.”

Most ignorant retards tend to think that way, Toddler, perhaps because it gives them the luxury of justifying the reason why they spent a lot of hard earned money just to buy the biggest piece of crap ever made by man; a Harley Davidson.

The reason why there are no 50 year old Japanese bikes out there is that Japanese bikes actually evolve over time, rather than remain stagnant like Harley’s products have done. Why would you get rid of something 50 years old if what is currently available today at the dealer is almost an exact copy of what you now have in your garage? What’s the point? Do you want to buy a brand new bike that looks like it’s already 50 years old or keep the used 50 year old bike you currently have that looks just like the brand new bike? Nothing changes in Milwaukee. A 50 year old Harley is pretty much identical to a brand new Harley, parked side by side, but a 50 year old Japanese bike parked next to a current Japanese bike would look like a Model-T Ford parked next to a brand new Chevy Corvette. This ability to evolve means that the Japanese bikes get better as the breeds mature. Technology plays a vast role in this miraculous transformation, and that technology is often driven by the needs of the race track, i.e. competition, something Harley has never been very good at (even when they kneewalked around bawling their eyes out about how it wasn’t fair that the imports were so much faster and they got the rules changed to meet their own needs and then they still lost so they did what every “real” American should do. They gave up and ran away.).

This amazing product transformation takes place not over a period of decades, but over a period of years, sometimes even months. I’ve explained this all before as well in my arguments but I see you were not paying attention. Too bad, so sad, you might just have learned something.

So, why would you keep old junk that was outdated, that the world had passed by in a roaring cloud of dust decades ago, unless that old junk is the only thing the factory is currently producing, unless that old junk is the only thing that the factory can currently produce? A 1983 Harley Sportster is identical to a 1993 Sportster is identical to a 2003 Sportster. If you own a Sportster, chances are, it doesn’t matter what year it is, it’s pretty much the same bike. Not so with import bike producing companies who don’t project stagnation and inbreeding as revolutionary marketing or advanced technological concepts.

The point why people keep buying Japanese bikes every few years is that the Japanese bikes actually change over time, therefore, the older bikes become obsolete and people trade up for more power, more comfort, more reliability. The same thing occurs with computers, Japanese motorcycles have more in common with the technological race that dictates computer marketing than anything else. Remember, all societal change is essentially technology driven. Have you ever wondered if Harley made computers today like they make motorcycles? I have. If you could buy a HD computer, you would get a 8088 machine running 16k of memory on a monochrome screen. It would be the size of a refrigerator and weight twice as much. When you cut it on, it would sound like an old farm tractor wheezing to life. Of course, it would cost two to four times as much as the fastest new Pentium, but I’m sure it would be trendy. A Harley computer would probably be built out of an iron and chrome case with a leather mouse pad stamped with the bar and shield logo. Oh, wait, that was before mice were invented, so I guess you scoggins would just have to learn how to type after all, which would be a good thing, as half of you would instantly drop off the Internet. And speaking of the Internet, your internet access would be through a 1200 baud modem, if that much, and you would all run around the Internet in your little chat rooms screaming how great your American made computers were, and how you had a real computer, and not some Jap crap or all that Pentium gobbledy-gook inside. And, just like we do now, the rest of the world who truly understood technology and embraces technology, would pity you and just shake their heads at your complete and utter ignorance.

Harleys never change, they are just the same tired old junk year after year after year, marketed to the lowest common denominator in the marketplace with the highest amount of disposable income and the least amount of fiscal sense. I guess that pretty much identifies which area of society you hail from, now doesn’t it?

”The difference between a Harley and rice is just like the difference between a Zippo lighter and a Bic. One's solid metal and designed to last a lifetime while the other's just brightly colored plastic that gets tossed when it's used up (which do esn't take long).”

Funny you should mention Bic and Zippo, because both are very similar to their two wheeled counterparts and both do the same job, now don’t they Toddler? However, the Bic has less weight, comes in far more colors, doesn’t require constant maintenance (flints, wicks, fuel), you don’t have to worry about it leaking where you leave it, you can buy one in a lot more places than you can a Zippo, and when you get tired of it, you can move on to something else without losing a large investment. The Zippo (of which I do own a very nice custom engraved one, thank you so very much) costs substantially more than the Bic, is a lot heavier, not as easy to use, requires a lot of maintenance, and is somewhat of a bragging piece used only to impress the type of women who have yellow stained fingers, hang around in bars drinking cheap beer and who try to climb up in 18 wheelers while they sit idling in truck stop parking lots. Also, for the price of one Zippo, you could buy many, many Bics. Zippos don’t change very often, but I constantly see new types of Bic or Bic copy lighters on the market. Now, if the lighters all do the same job, wouldn’t your money be better spent buying the Bic instead of the Zippo? Normally, the answer would be yes. Unless, of course, you were just trying to impress people with what you owned and to show off what you could afford…

I like the analogy of the Bic vs. the Zippo, it fits rather nicely into the Harley argument, dovetailing quite well. Thank you for presenting it. After all, there’s now a whole aftermarket dedicated to producing accessories for Zippo lighters, from T-shirts to knife sets to leather belt carriers. There are even Harley Davidson edition Zippos (though the lighter is far more reliable, requires less maintenance, and gets better fuel mileage). Sometimes I wonder if Zippo even makes lighters any more with all the crap they have put their name on lately. Kind of like another company I know, way out in Milwaukee, that seems more obsessed with selling fashion accessories than the product they supposedly built their reputation on. I don’t think Bic even comes close in the scoggin market for lighter accessories and that’s because Zippo, like Harley, is now more a trendy status symbol than a useful tool.

“Check the motorcycle junkyards across the nation. They're piled high with the carcasses of junked Jap crap, yet you won't find one single Harley in any of them anywhere.”

Nope.  Apparently the Franklin Mint buys up old wrecked Harleys and melts them down to produce more tacky crap!  See this link, so that would explain why you don't see many wrecked Harleys in the junkyard, they're recycled to make man-hole covers and street lamp poles, or something useful to Western civilization in their second life.

I’ve found that there are a lot of ‘specialty’ based boneyards in the world, so you will have import and domestic parts specialty clearing houses, just like you might find a junkyard that only deals in old Pontiac GTOs and parts. I doubt that you will actually find a Harley ‘junk yard’, that wouldn’t be very PC now would it. A Harley is enough of a specialty bike now that I’m sure there are many “Harley only” parts yards where old bikes are disassembled and sold either in piece or rebuilt and sold for a profit to any scoggin who can knee-walk in their overalls up to the counter with clasped hands, sobs of abject rapture, and a wheezing pleading for the one thing which rules their lives. You will probably find these bone yards under the yellow pages with trendy names like “Cletus’ Old House of Like New Used Harley Parts” or “Scoggin Bob’s Scooter and Leather Shack of Unmentionable Love”.

I’m sorry, but your argument is invalid. Some Harleys do get wrecked so bad that they cannot be repaired, and where do you think those bikes go? My guess is they go to the junkyard, or either to the trailer park, which is tantamount to being the same thing.

“Bubba, that Harley’s done goned and been bent clean in half! Someone done wrapped it up around some pine tree somewhere.”

“Yeah, Cletus, but it’s a Harley! Not that jap crap! By God and Willy, when I get my four wheel drive out of the sheriff’s impound lot out in the county, I’m going to hook me up a chain to that oak tree and my rear bumper and I’m going to straighten out that frame and I’m going to have me a Harley! I bet if I give it just a little bit extra gas in four low, I can make it a chopper! Wee-hooo!”

The notion that there are no Harley graveyards is not only patently ignorant, it’s poignantly naïve on your part and goes far to show how virgin your mind is with regard to the subject matter. I do so hope I didn’t hurt you too much when I busted your mental hymen with my rigid phallus of logic, but it was good for me, I assure you.

”Now you want to talk about power? My personal Harley will do an honest 130 mph. I know because I've been there. That's a 680 pound bike going that fast, not a 350 pound plastic toy. I doubt you've ever seen that kind of speed in your short little life.”

Only 130mph? People like you make me weep openly for the future of the human race.

I've got a 1985 Mazda RX-7 GSL, with a 70cid (2x 35cid rotor) motor, a four barrel carb, and it has 100hp and 105 lbs/ft of torque, which means that a Japanese 70cid motor from 1985 is still producing more hp and torque than your current (not modern, but current) V-twin.  My RX-7 will probably do about 110mph on the top end, so it's more impressive than your Harley because it weighs four times what your Harley weighs and it will still blow past the ton all day long.  And you think doing 130mph is a big thing.

Yawn.

130mph doesn’t impress me, Toddler, not at all. I’ve seen 150mph in a bone stock 350 TPI powered ’88 IROC-Z. I’ve been to 157mph in my bone stock ’88 Z-51 Corvette with a Doug Nash transmission. 168mph or thereabouts was achieved using a pro-built Lingenfelter full roller, aluminum headed, port fuel injected 406 Super Ram topped small block Chevy engine that I own, a motor I might add that was capable of propelling the car it was bolted into well into the low 12 second quarter mile at over 112 mph, without any power adder. That meant that my motor and my car was faster than most Harleys are stock. I bet it’s sad to get dusted by something on four wheels isn’t it?

My ’95 Ninja which you speak so highly of was taken to 160mph and some change on several occasions on closed circuits and that exact same model of bike was clocked at over 168 mph in two different British magazines on the far side of the pond. I regularly see 130mph two or three times a month alone behind the wheel of a 2003 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor, and that's before the onboard decides to get greedy with the spark and the fuel.

130mph is training wheels compared to the speeds I’ve seen in this long life of mine. From Hemis to rotary to small block to big block, GM, Ford, Mopar, supercharged, turbocharged, fuel injected, nitrous injected, bored, stroked, punched, ported, polished, blueprinted, balanced, I’ve seen them all and ridden in them all. Maybe when you get a real bike, or a real car, you’ll understand that 130mph is a kindergarten pace for the speeds that modern performance vehicles can produce.

130mph from a Harley?  And you actually built this Harley?  I could understand where 130mph might be impressive if you were looking at factory bone stock merchandise, but for you to put together a Harley, with your choice of only the best and most powerful parts, and that is the most power you could get out of that bike?  If it is, then that says a lot about not only what you have to work with, but also what kind of skill and talent went into it.  Do you have the faintest clue that there are bone stock Honda Goldwings weighing over 900 pounds that will cruise at 130mph all day long and you're claiming glory for a bike that weighs two thirds of what a Goldwing does yet will only do 130mph?  Woo-the-fuck-hoo.  Let me reign in my rampant unbridled amazement at this lofty goal you have achieved, be that as it may.

Yes, Harleys can be made to be fast, but you have to rebuild the engines from the ground up to do so, and that isn’t cheap, or easy. I’m not impressed with Harley’s engines or the build up mods that can be done to them. Harleys, being American Iron, should be fast from the factory. If a Harley is so damn bad ass, if it’s such a powerful motorcycle, then it should whip everything else in the world, hands down, shouldn’t it? I mean, in everything other than drunken bar conversations.

But it doesn’t.

Why?

Because it can’t. It isn’t meant to compete with the world. And as for doing 130mph on a Harley, like I’ve said before, going 130mph on a Harley is kind of like using a blow torch to dry your hair. It may seem like a good idea at the time, but once you really get going…

As for speed, the import manufacturers are currently neck to neck trying to produce the first honest 200mph off the showroom floor import motorcycle, so far the Suzuki Hayabusa seems to be the leader with Honda and Kawasaki in close second. But then, you would expect kind of goal from companies that are technology, rather than image, driven.

“It's easy to blather on about a subject with which you have no experience, as you do on your Teenage Ninja Turtle site, or whatever it's called, but until you've actually ridden a real Harley you can only speak from a speculative point of view.”

Bwahahahahaha! TMNT! How so very ‘80’s! I don't think there's anything on my site about the TMNT and I certainly don't have anything in my life with the TMNT logo on it.  Could you be any more mundane or illogical in your lackadaisical method of reasoning? I seriously doubt it, but I’m sure you’ll give it your best. Here’s another news flash for you, Toddler. I’ve ridden several Harleys, and not a few Buells. All were lackluster pieces of overpriced dog-shit. Not only did they not impress, but they outright embarrassed me. To pay that much money, for that kind of junk, and call it American made really, really insulted my sense of patriotism and my pride as a citizen of this country. If something is going to carry the American flag, it better have the balls to back it up and the only balls that Milwaukee has are the ones that are repeatedly slapping you in the ass when you get bent over as you buy your new Harley.

“But since you'll never gather enough money to buy a Harley at your regular job giving BJs to oriental businessmen, it's all academic anyway. No, you just keep sending what little you earn to Japan and keep telling everyone what being a real American is all about.”

Oh for the forbidden love between Willie G. and Arlen Ness…

I had far better insults thrown at me in kindergarten than what you knuckle dragging inbred simps can manage to concoct. Maybe you should get your mother to help you with your insults. Perhaps after she finishes sewing your name inside your underwear before you and your leather clad booty-buddies go riding off to Sturgis to pretend to be bad ass bikers with the rest of the lemmings, she’ll have some time to put you on her lap and tell you a story as well. Ask her to tell you the one about the sailor and the two dollar port whore, I’m sure she has pictures of your father to go along with the tale.

Using your line of logic, being a “real American” would be if you were uneducated, ignorant, stupid, and clueless and you had the receipts for all the officially licensed and endorsed products to prove it. I don’t have to prove that I’m American by what I ride, what I wear, or who I hang out with. There was a time when being an American wasn’t plural, it stood for an individual, not a group pretending to be individuals.

I’m an individual.

I don’t measure my patriotism with a dipstick or a long self approving look in the mirror. I don’t buy my patriotism out of a catalog and I don’t find it sitting for sale on a show room floor in some trendy boutique in a mall.

You have a very uninformed view of what being an “American” and what being “patriotic” is all about, which is, as you are so oft to quote, too bad, so sad.

Here’s a clue, Toddler.

You can’t buy either of those lofty ideals with money and if you could, they would inherently be worthless. They are not for sale, they have to be earned. If those ideals are paid for with anything, they are paid for with blood, sweat, and tears, three things I don’t see HD taking in trade for their outdated junk. You might can get a Harley with ass or grass, but not blood, sweat, and tears (though you might be crying after you drive it off the showroom floor and your ass may be sore before you even climb aboard one). Since you can’t buy patriotism, and Harley only deals in cold, hard cash, they, therefore, do not sell patriotism nor do they deal in it. There’s a hell of a lot more to being an American and being patriotic than slapping a flag on the back of your leather jacket, putting on a red, white, and blue doo-rag, and getting an eagle tattoo.

And as for sending my money to Japan, I love just how ignorant you can be in your redneck logic.   Let's take for instance Honda of America, which gives hard working Americans good paying jobs with lots of benefits in their own home country building products that will ultimately be sold here in America, creating more jobs and more income for America. Those products will be purchased with American dollars earned on American jobs, those vehicles will be taxed in America, the money from the taxes of the sale and the tag will go to the community or municipality in which the product is purchased, not somehow be magically transferred back to mainland Japan. The Hondas will use tires bought in America, gas bought in America, wipers, oil, filters, washer fluid, car care products, and a host of other essentials all bought and paid for in America from American businesses. Insurance on that vehicle will be paid for to an American company, and any damages to that vehicle will be handled by an American company. 

So, when you buy an import, you're sending your money to Japan?  Not hardly.  Please don't fool yourself otherwise. It's patently ignorant.

”Like I said, too bad, so sad. It's just as well, though. You a ren't Harley material anyway.”

Thank God I'm not "Harley material."

If, by that remark you mean that I’m not an uneducated, ignorant, trailer park dwelling, trend humping fashion lemming with more money than common sense, then you, sir, are most assuredly correct. I never have been and never will be considered to be typical Harley material. My college education automatically precludes me from that lower segment of the gene pool, as does my view that inbreeding should not be a tag team event. My general loathing of NASCAR, honky-tonks, and professional wrestling also isolates me nicely from the rest of the clueless human flotsam and jetsam which tends to make up a large share of the Harley market.

“Pretend riders like you belong behind the safety of a keyboard because if you uttered your childlike gibberish to a real biker in the real world, all gibberish would cease instantly. Take that to the bank, rice bowl.”

I love the childish threats you inept buffoons concoct. At five foot twelve, two hundred and ten pounds and as a member of my department’s SWAT team, I think I pretty much speak my mind whenever I want to with impunity. If I can wrestle down a 280 pound bi-polar nut case all by myself, I think I can handle a no-life, skating, limp wristed, soft voiced, pole smoking, effeminate little pretend biker such as yourself without much effort. And you are correct, Toddler, in the real world, all gibberish in my presence tends to cease instantly. I’ve verbally dressed down quite a few ignorant Harley owners in public, and made two grown Harley riding men cry in front of a crowd of people, much to the delight of the import riders who were just minutes before being chastised for their choice of rides by these uneducated simps. And the only thing I'm taking to the bank, Todd, is all that money I save on not buying a lemming bike.

-Todd8080

PS ~ I see you're a big Terminator fan and have devoted a large portion of your site to it. Guess what brand Arnold rides?

Once again, my tiny minded intellectual virgin, the Terminator part of my site is rather small and only one of my many, many hobbies. That site deals with the advanced technology portrayed in the movies, not with any motorcycles shown on the silver screen (of which nothing HD produces could ever be considered to be ‘advanced technology’). I also say quite clearly on that site that I devote my appreciation of the movie to the imaginary technology of the future that is portrayed and that I do not devote my site to any of the actors or characters behind the story.

I couldn’t care less what Arnold rides in either the movie or in real life as my life does not revolve around what other people ride or what other people perceive of me.

Your life may, and rather obviously does, differ substantially in that respect.

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